| | 留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/27/2006 4:18:00 PM
年近歲晚，I really don't want to have a quarrel with “Si Hing Dai" But, I still believe free market concept can be applied in HK educational reform.
We all know that HK education system is established to ensure all children were provided with quality education free of charge. Thus, education or school voucher is a certificate by which parents are given the ability to pay for the education of their children at a school of their choice, rather than the public school to which they were assigned. These vouchers would be paid for using tax revenues. There are no children unable to finish the basic school education due to financial difficulty of their parents.
Voucher is one strategy within the movement to provide“choice”for parents on where to send children to their flavour schools. So, voucher promotes competition. My belief is that private enterprise, rather than government, should be responsible for all services with no restrictions, including such services as education normally thought of as public. Government should play fewer roles in education provider. 孫子兵法曰:將能，而君不御者勝。
However, it is because students, teachers & school are facing with very keen competition under such circumstances, that only very few teachers support this system.
Anyway, Happy Chinese New Year to all Pui Shing old boys.
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留言人: P. Wong
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/24/2006 8:44:00 AM
What is an education reform ? Does it mean to change the educational system in a way as a business, like private schools in North America. Hong Kong Government is the shareholder, educational authority is the director, principals are management, teachers are employees/workers, taxpayers are customers. What is the position of the students ? stock of products for sale, bad products or good products will depend on how they are made by the management and employees under the direction of the directors.
Shareholder and Director's objectives:
Increase productivity year by year;
Maximumize the return by better allocating the resources, i.e. close plants (schools) which have less production; ask the employees/workers to work hard and etc.
Conflict : shareholder & director want best return vs. employees want best salaries, rewards, respects and comfortable working conditions
Agreement: Both of them want to make good products for sale so that both of them can survive in the real business world.
Management is in the middle between the them. It can be reflected in the response from the pricipals in the teachers' demonstration recently.
Should educational system be run as a business ? As a layman, I don't think so. Business always target on profit making and most taxpayers (i.e. customers) cannot afford. How much you pay for a year for a student in a private school which is run as a business, i.e. about 120,000 per student plus parent's donations. Most parents cannot afford. The success of the private school is because the techers are well paid and respected.
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留言人: 炮泉
主題: re:遊行見陳夫子
留言日期: 1/23/2006 4:49:00 PM
更正: 配改為倍 狀改為壯
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留言人: 炮泉
主題: re:遊行見陳夫子
留言日期: 1/23/2006 9:46:00 AM
昨日下午三時正由我兒永立陪我低達大會場地，由於我不能席地而坐，我兒使我站立於大會左方近食物亭的馬路牌柱下椅着而立，後遇栢師師訓班同學會主席葉朗樞兄一同站立，經两小後才出發，如此雄壯行列，使我熱淚盈框，從事教育四十載的我，每步每步慢慢地盡訴苦中情，試想為何使我至於此地也，此無他皆因弄權者施法所至也，今後教師們應更團結，齊心協力做好本份，更應力陳利害，以行動感化各中小學校長，為教師争取權益，這是上上之策，在站立期間我曾發謬論，假若某日有50%校長為教師而出力，則已馬到成功，則𣎴至有今日的現象，時至今日，李國章仍以為有這么多校長支持即可隻手遮天，今日教统局的言論也以此為根，經校長會議及從詳計議由此可見，看着吧！仍要繼續努力，三月四日再來了。
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留言人: 李忠榮
主題: re:遊行有感
留言日期: 1/22/2006 10:08:00 PM
今天我參與遊行，中午2.30時分已經到達會場，見到人群陸續進場，我獨自坐在會場一边，靜靜地反省，也不覺得寂寞，臺上的領導者是培聖的校友張文光會長，場內應有梁老師、鍾師母、應當還有很多不知名的校友、、、
這兒起碼超過一萬名教師和家長參加，爭取減輕教師壓力，大會邀請很多知名人士上台發言、引來熱烈的回響，道出教改令教師工作量大增，承受巨大精神壓力外，與家人相處的時間減少，希望當局可以為教師鬆綁，又為最近去世的教師默哀。
然後在中環愛丁堡廣場，幔慢遊行至政府總部，將黃絲帶綁在鐵馬外才離去。
謹向各位支持和關心的校友說聲多謝！
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留言人: Miss Chan
主題: re:遊行見陳夫子
留言日期: 1/22/2006 8:30:00 PM
炮泉：
謝謝你的支持，場地人太多，見不到你，但卻見到陳夫子和兩名男士，未知是培聖仔還是其他老師。遊行時，我和幾名外籍人士同行，他們手持標語，服飾鮮艷統一，頭戴四方帽，但頸部套著絞刑用的繩子，十方觸目。我多謝他們的支持和夠專業。傾談後，得悉他們來自美國，入大學前一年作Gap year，來港在一些中學作輔導老師，訓練中四、五學生Oral.為期半年，來港幾月，發現老師工作量驚人，工作時間超長，每班人數亦多。他們對香港老師的印象極佳，既勤力又友善，對老師的自殺，深感婉惜，故表示要為老師出一點力。
Miss Chan
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留言人: 炮泉--與Miss Chan同行--
主題: re:教改不是改革,而是革老師命
留言日期: 1/21/2006 2:10:00 PM
Miss Chan 我明日亦會参加遊行，這是我人生第二次响應教協行動，回想教協第一次號召教師合法罷課時，學校两副大字由天台放到地面是由我用油油上，成為牛津道上各校之冠，我為什么有這大胆量呢？罷課前一天，全由於李耀波校監主持特別校務會議，李超鵬校長缺席，議決由陳副校長及本人主持大局及佈置，大字報全照教協規定，更由於已故梁熾强老弟購來两匹碼多濶，二十碼長白色及黃色布和用具，即晚開工，𠖥課當日，笑話多籮籮了，胆大生毛的我，真是天不怕，地𣎴怕，只怕無理由，結果雖受两次口頭警告，由於身份不同，故能以超然地位反擊，一矢中的，以這悲之毛甚高類的我而渡此関，也算是笑話連天，算了！算了！結果罷課成功，政府派出安子介一人小組處理這事件，望明天第二次出馬，馬到功成是我們教師所願也。
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留言人: Big NOse - 1977
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚 to Steve(70)
留言日期: 1/20/2006 3:41:00 PM
I fully understand time changes things and as such, it is no surprise that today’s teaching life is different from that of 30-40 years ago. This is simply a non-statement.
On the point of compensation, yes, teaching professionals used to make more money than regular workers; and isn’t the same hold true today? A regular worker makes around 3 thousand a month (so that HKSAR says) and I believe a new graduate joining the teaching staff would make some 15K or so (sorry, I am just guessing here, but I know I am close) – so the ratio remains approximately 4-5 times more …. So, what is really the difference?
In a competitive world we live in, there is always pressure. In a commercial world, pressure happens very much from day one! Stop dreaming of the good old days and don’t complain you do not have rich daddies!! That’s all I say.
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留言人: Big Nose - 1977
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 11:59:00 PM
There is more than one road to Rome, more ways to skin a cat.
Every competition has winners and losers, every society has riches and poors, leaders and followers. Think about it, we live in a dog-eat-dog world, filled with systems to separate and divid people.
Often we find the winners celebrate their success in silence, while the losers protest the unfairness in pain ...
Often the leaders speak the loudest without opening their mouth, while the followers match and shout but head down south.
Results count!!!
I bet teachers from famous schools complain less ... I wonder why? My advice is, take a shot and get to the top ... ask not what they can do for you, but what you can do for yourself!
Look around us, some famous schools have been famous for years, some schools were famous but ot any more, some schools were not so famous years ago but rank top today ... every one plays the same game, it is a game of survival...sink or swim...
If matching, moaning, blaming is the answer everytime, I will pack up my day time job tomorrow...
Some of you teachers, wise up!!!
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留言人: Big Nose - 1977
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 11:32:00 PM
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 8:15:00 PM
Keung:
As my writing pad suddenly break-down, I can't communicate with you in Chinese.
I know all teachers or educational system is facing with very hard time today. That’s why we have to move forth & find the way out. It’s is no point to recall the golden Lion Rock moment in 50s or 60s.
In North American ( I don’t familiar with UK, big nose can provide the information), almost all of the famous & prestigious universities or even high-school are private schools. They are really running a profitable business. Those schools charge tremendous expensive school fee, and obviously their standards are also tremendous high.
I know you concern about Chinese tradition relationship of master & apprentice may be faded out if education is directly linked with free market or money. Don’t worry about it. All the old boys are very loyalty & proud of their schools. The sense of belonging is very strong. Of course, they are not only put the loyalty into the mouth, but also put it in action----donation, just like Chan Chi-ming & many Si Hings. That’s why I fire a salute of 21 guns to them.
In short, we have tried so many methods to reform the education system but the outcome is getting worse & make everybody embarrassing. Why not give a chance to free market?.
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留言人: 84李潤強
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 7:09:00 PM
Tat兄,
你所說的就是市場調控.理論上是可行.但問題是政府有冇好的智慧及技巧去過渡.
擺在中國就易行得多,强權下幾多人下崗!係香港一個濫用自由及個人主義的珹市,唔好話愛國(真正的中國),又有幾多人會真真正正有愛港(出生地)的歸屬感!
就以我回校所見怪現象,放學鐘一响全校學生/老師/校役即時同步離場.學生覺得學校提供不到課餘活動需要.所提供的只是與學術或可以係教育報告拿分的項目以增取提高學校排名.年青的老師又不停要上不同的資源增值進修.校役最勵害按本旨辦事準時拉大閘.態度比先生更威嚴.(各人的心態都好似返商業公司.那有校園歸屬感)
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留言人: 我是七十
主題: re:潤強兄
留言日期: 1/19/2006 6:13:00 PM
潤強兄﹕
您的體會﹐很大地方有同感﹐引起我一點回響。
連人口發展﹐出身率都沒有關注的政府﹐是一個怎樣運作的機關﹖
所以tat兄曾經提及過蘇軾的晁錯論﹐最好官員拿來一讀。
當年黃星華為郵政局賺到不少﹐才平地一聲雷(郵政局現在好像又鬧錢慌) 。
教育真是不能完全拿企業管理那一套來管的(擔心一天教師變得像保險推銷員﹐不過﹐聽說北區有些學校要跑到大陸推銷)﹐最少在教學育人的層面上。
大公報今天(﹖) 有篇評論﹐作者是胡少偉﹐他最後一句的期望﹐也是潤強兄的期望。現在教育界會不會存在有欠人性的管理層呢﹖我個人有點懮慮。
這七八年﹐香港社會文化環境變得急促。學校是一個辦公室(office)﹐教師是staff, 不是teacher 不是master﹐mentor(不知何時會變成服務員﹖)。上過禮拜有個在官校當教師的朋友﹐告訴我﹐學校準備頒授個什麼quality什麼service的獎(我不甚了解記不清楚﹐大概是優質服務之意)給他。他說﹐因為他認為教育不應以商業服務性質視之﹐所以謝絕領受(這個朋友也與培聖有緣) 。現在的公民身份都講權益。動輒投訴。所以呢﹐“仁” 的價值多重要。
英國教育無時無刻不在為錢動腦筋。大學學費過去五年不斷在鬧提高﹐大學生年年抗議﹐不少大學生交不到學費。英國教育是非常講品質quality的。英國人自己也質問﹐教育花了那麼多錢﹐究竟對國家帶來什麼效益。曾經在英國報紙看過幾篇評論﹐學術研究當中﹐最多”垃圾” 就是教育研究 。但是教育研究經費用去不少。回首看香港﹐值得深思。經營其實也關乎學術。個人所見﹐香港其實在教育某些領域上也花了不少﹐例如優質教學基金﹐語文教育基金。被英國人知道﹐一定引來艷羨目光。當然有些領域錢是不夠花的。當年“目標為本”﹐花了不少錢﹐心血﹐現在呢﹖
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 5:44:00 PM
Time change. Communist change. Chief Executive Change. Educational needs change"
Our tax money is being spent in increasingly large amounts on an increasingly failing government school system. Given the choice, many parents would choose to spend this tax money of ours on a better education for their children. Because of the monopoly that government or subsided schools enjoy, those with limited income do suffer from a lack of choices. Nowadays, more & more middle class parents would send their children to an expensive international school, like Big Nose, or even study aboard at primary school age. Why? All of them have no confidences in HK educational system, including of teacher’s issue.
Nowadays, teachers seem put focus on their own interests too much, such as heavy workload, too many appraisals, or job security. Also, a senior teachers and staff make more than double the money of beginners, but teacher & staff to student ratios are the same for all schools, these school systems spend at least twice from taxpayer. Upon this figure, many taxpayers would stand on teachers’ opposite side, except me.
As I pointed out before, the purpose of a school voucher system is to make the schools more responsive to the needs of the voucher beneficiaries (the students, their parents etc). Of course, I know free markets do not make 'the best' results. Free markets optimize the values of the participants inside of them. If the participants value savings the market will respond by reducing costs; including such things as hiring younger, less experienced teachers at lower pay and accepting higher turnover instead of paying a premium for teachers with a lot of experience. The market will suffer from their stupid thoughts. That’s why vouchers are probably a more fair system than today.
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留言人: 84李潤強
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 4:47:00 PM
各位小弟在過去的三個月回母校觀察所得的現在香港教育處境:
政府的立場
大家讀過人口金子塔.現在的香港人口年齡分佈.站在經濟學的理論就是開始有倒三角的情況.這種情形實在可怕,蕳單來說就是入不付支.當然一個政府有責任去作調控,但可惜現在的執行�肮O弱勢不夠果斷只向錢看的守財奴.從政府以經濟掛師政策.開支各方面都希望減省,各個部門�m巧立明目去執行這種計劃.近十年已一直推行,我非公務人員.但從我所聽所聞�m可謂無一幸免.
講真這種政策用於與商業活動有關的部門是好的如房署.郵政,稅局等.但用於要與人日日接觸.重要傳授知識的教育就非常大問題.如果政府是一家公司,教育部就等同開發部.佢不沒有直接提供收入,反而是燒錢的其中主力.但有一個好處就是如果用得其所.就可為公司帶來長遠的巨大收入.
現在的情況是老細展望將來驚冇收入公司失控.於是叫整各個部門的主管開大會.重預先比定一份五年的減省開支計劃.話明邊個達到目標的就有進升機會.每個部門主管�m"人性盡現"出盡百寶.遺獨開發部的主管覺得不對徑.駛出拽字訣.老細見其未有交恃索性換人,找一個嗅味相投的新主管.新貴上場立即表現奇本色加太力度執行,初其員工還可忍受作出適當的配合.但久而久之發覺所做的工作越來越不似一個開發先峰,似營業及推廣部.最慘就是顧客亦�m做埋傻仔只求個人外表�螂�(英雄主義)不理內涵實用.以為有綽頭就可以一世受用(動不動就投訴.不需理會人冢感受,務求出位)
試問你是開發部員工的心情又會怎樣!
如果是我就希望公司人性一點!看遠一點!
**聽說英國在教育開發及研究的教育經費是佔有一大比重.看來英國佬營商能力咁強.願意駛咁大開支,一定有其好處.
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留言人: steve(70)
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 1:37:00 PM
Hi All
It has been a long time since my last post. Wish all of you have a prosperous New Year that includes Chinese New Year too.
Big Nose there is a big difference between the professional life of being a teacher now and 30 to 40 years ago. In the old days a regular worker may earn about 400 to 800 dollars a month but being a teacher in a public school or subsidised like Pui Shing it is 2 to 5 thousand dollars-a 4 to 5 folds more! I still remember that several of our teachers own private sedans and live in spacious flats in a very nice neighbourhood. There were no pressure from the government to watch behind your back. As long as you do not instigate anti goverment sentiment your job is as safe an iron rice bowl. Daily life of being a teacher is like living in paradise when there is no peer reviews or governmental intervention with heavy hands or risk of being forced early retirement. I think the DE is under the pressure from the higher up to trim the budget as though it is running a
private enterprise to safe money.This is a very short-sighted policy that will hurt our future generations to compete in the very competitive world. It is a very sad to say the least.
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 12:08:00 AM
I can't agree more. If you are not with the one you love, you love the one you with.
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留言人: Big Nose - 1977
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/19/2006 12:06:00 AM
well, I can change the world ... and help everyone ...
But I can control more in my own house...
Therefore, I send my kids to International schools and they learn and are happy ...
Can't beat them, join them ... can't join them ... find your own solution ... that's my philosophy...
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留言人: 黎克
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/18/2006 11:40:00 PM
Tat兄 & 大鼻兄:
1月16~18日的明報副刋世紀版都有教育工作者的心路歷程，他們不是反對或抗爭教改，只是給教改累透了，教改只是要一堆中看的數字，並沒有做到老師學生可以開開心心上學去，快快樂樂放學了。
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留言人: 黎克
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/18/2006 11:27:00 PM
「十年樹木，百年樹人」辦教育又豈是這帮只懂規章制度，以量計值的AO的專長，我倒想知道他們有沒有研究過蔡元培，梅貽奇的生平和理念。
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留言人: Big Nose - 1977
主題: re:教改是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 11:24:00 PM
I am not a teacher and I really don't fully understand exactly how painful and difficult it is being a teacher at present ...
All the same, I am not a policeman, I really don't fully understand exactly how painful and difficult it is being a policeman at present ...
[snip, snip, snip....]
All I know is, a lot of people are going through a difficult life ... so it seems and so it is claimed...regardless of the profession...
All I know is, not able to cope with the pressure and difficulties, some people have decided to end their lives, regardless of the profession...
[snip, snip, snip....]
Turn the clock back 30-40 years, surely times were hard (I am no expert and hence couldn't say which era is more difficult)...regardless of the profession...
The questions are:
* Have people become less resilient now?
* is present life really that much more difficult than life 30-40 years ago?
* In this world, people kill themselves, past and present ... regardless of the profession...I don't know for sure but am inclined to believe that prior the last two teacher who killed themselves in recent months, there must have been teacher committed suicide...and there must have been teacher suicide prior to the HKSAR governemnt even ... and how can we really relate the recent death of the teacher to the DE policy changes or that of the HKSAR government?
* Can we honestly say that the quality of teaching staff is, on average, acceptable? and if not, is it really the result of the HKSAR's education policies or the lack of them?
* How do we appraise the teaching professionals and ensure that no teacher is going to jump the building?
* Suicide is a very complex matter and I believe it is very difficult to pin-down the exact casue of the rationale that caused the action - one can easily point the finger at the teahcer's nagging wife, the bus that always come late etc etc as being the reason that prompt one to stop wanting to breath any more...perhaps we will never understand...
One thing I know for sure, there are people who are so ready to jump on the band-wagon ... for whatever reason...or no reason...some people just like following the crowd...
Thoughts of a confused Big Nose ....
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/18/2006 11:22:00 PM
我雖無兒無女，但我都想佢哋成功。不過我都打定輸數，下任教育統籌局局長多數係羅太。
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留言人: 牛榮
主題: re:教改是欺人太甚
留言日期: 1/18/2006 11:09:00 PM
老實說，今天的老師哪有心情和能力跟他抗爭，又耍手段，又要用策略、又在放假的時間遊行。如Miss chan 吐露她怕行路，八人大橋抬也不想去行，之不過教育統籌局這次實在是欺人太甚，賤踏得太勁，才引發起群眾的憤怒！反彈一下吧！
羅太這么勇是有所求的，不過此一時、被一時、群眾內心的不滿越來越熱烈，即時李國章花大量的「掩口費」，也幫不到羅太，起馬不會順利過渡教育統籌局局長，這次真是人算不如天算！
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 10:34:00 PM
羅太現在是戰國策中的狐狸，站在老虎李國章的後面，我係佢我都死撐。
抗爭要用手段，要用策略，假設李國章真的死撐羅太，搬出16億作為2條人命及失言的掩口費，怎辦?
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留言人: 牛榮
主題: re:教改是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 9:58:00 PM
羅太現在採取「笑罵由他笑罵，好官我自為之」的策略。但今次民情來勢洶洶，教統局吐出了「幾億元掩口費」以應當前危急，究竟可否夠救她出衝出重圍？即使救得到，也會大傷元氣！
事实上，以往任何大主管對死了的老師，都不會故意刁難和奚落，更不會在死人當中雪上加霜！
到現時為止，羅太並不覺得自己說錯了話，一直是硬頂，且理直氣壯，道歉得近乎弱智！
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留言人: Tat
主題: re:教改不是改革,而是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 9:37:00 PM
Miss Chan或其他老師校友:
其實妳哋教師本週日遊行係想爭取乜，或表達乜訴求? 我聽啲phone-in節目，很多老師又話唔怕辛苦，又唔係為錢，有啲又話自己都支持教改，又冇話要羅太下台，想點?
作為一個無兒無女，又不太認識教改的人，我都想知道為什麼個個party如家長，學生，老師，辦學團體，什至教統局都喊苦喊忽? 其實仲有冇得救架?
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留言人: 我是七十
主題: re:教改不是改革,而是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 8:00:00 PM
吳志森今天在蘋果報大體說出了幾個問題
個人不喜歡‘打倒誰打倒誰’的訴求
個人也認為羅太是有心人
身邊好多反不及她
關於香港教師的權益
培聖仔係有影響力架.......
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留言人: Miss Chan
主題: re:教改不是改革,而是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 12:39:00 AM
梁定國校友：
對！我支持你。上週我己第一個報名準備本週日遊行。我一向怕行路，八人大橋抬我也不會去行，一世人只參與過兩次遊行示威，分別是六四事件和七一大遊行。
Miss Chan
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留言人: 梁定國
主題: 教改不是改革,而是革老師命
留言日期: 1/18/2006 12:30:00 AM
官僚不喜歡老師,因為老野薪金高,高官同某些校長,都渴望將老野踢走,然後用16000元一個月,請聽話好使的大學畢業生。這是商界心態,誰不知教育是育人,於是個個老師由早上第一堂起,做到晚上七,八點才能離開,披星帶月,同學生建立關係?好遙遠的事---羅太同李國章知道實況咩?就算一早知道,只是"你死你事"的想法,所以本周星期日一定要企出來,去表態了!
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